The following is a copied and pasted debate I attempted to have with a Christian who was evangelizing on the "Freedom From Religion Foundation" Facebook page. I edited nothing, except to change the names to "Christian" and "Atheist." My main reason for posting this is to ask for any skilled defense of the Christian stance in this argument, partially because I refuse to smugly believe that I am some sort of champion because I bested a well-meaning girl (with no concept of sentence structure) on Facebook. I've yet to have any kind of reasonable response to the questions I have posed. Here's your chance, Christendom. Yes it is long, and yes, most of you out there in internet land have no use for this kind of thing - but I do love a good debate. Please jump in at will - from either side. Or if this is not your cup of tea, please move on to something else at will. I know this is a bit unorthodox for a blog post. I just want more input. I'm a conversation junky.
Here it is:
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Christian: A..admit that you are a sinner..... B..belive that Jesus is Gods son....C..confess that Jesus is your savior and lord........ maybe some of you should think about this before its to late. Regardless what youve done or who you belive in Jesus loves you.
Atheist: I'm curious as to why you find it necessary to evangelize with a cute "ABC" catch-phrase, followed by a vague threat of god's judgment ("before it's too late"), and then proclaim the love of the god who will destroy the non-believers - all on a peaceful site. There is nothing about irreligion that would threaten you in any way. We have no books claiming to be written by the creator of the universe dictating morals to us by way of genocide, rape, and slavery (if you need scriptures, I'll site them). All we as non-religious people want is truth and free inquiry. There is no lake of fire and brimstone, no purgatory, no apocalypse, no oppressive gender and sexual laws, and no calls to war by cosmic forces among the atheists and agnostics of the world. What is it that makes the religious so insecure that they must threaten (directly or indirectly) those who disagree with them until they assimilate to their beliefs? I for one would much rather have someone come to a non-religious stance through a natural progression of inquiry and understanding than to have it brow-beaten into them. The religious people of the world have no such courtesy - they must either guilt, nag, torture, or suicide-bomb others into submission. Why? Is it because you think your god will kill us? If you do, then maybe you should give a second thought to worshiping that guy.
Christian: all you want is the truth? ok well here you go. there was a rich man (non believer) and a poor servant (believer) the rich man had all he had ever wanted on this earth and as many servants as he ever wanted. the poor man Lazarus didnt have anything but his God and faith he was coverd in sores and ate with the rich mans dogs.
well they both die, the rich man goes to that lake of fire that you don't believe in and Lazarus went to heaven.well that lake was so hot that the rich man had to beg God for Lazarus to dip his finger in cool water and touch it to his tongue. Luke16 19-31
can you see wind? no. but you have faith its there right?
well just cause you have not seen the lake of fire and heaven doesn't mean its not there. What i said was not a threat that was a promise from the good book itself.
If you dont want to believe in it i cant make you no one can im just doing what i am on this earth to do that's tell as many people about our lord as i can. you have a right to believe whatever you would like. doesn't mean its right. just try this before you become closed minded and hardened look up this short passage in the new testament John 18 19 and 20.
do yourself a favor and do this please. jesus loves you
Atheist: I know that you're not specifically trying to be judgmental. I know this because for the vast majority of my life, I was on your side of this conversation. I believed that I was helping people. I was rescuing them from death at the hands of the man in the sky who created them. Now, here's the thing that gets me - you just called me closed minded. I spent NINETEEN YEARS of my life immersed in Christian culture. I've read the Bible cover to cover at LEAST three times. Every time I read that book, I had these twinges of conscience telling me - "Why did God make the rules so that one mistake made by one person would destroy mankind's future for countless generations? And why did he make the rules so that his son would have to be tortured to death? Was his hand forced? If he was in charge, why did he make the system set up to so easily digress to chaos?" I wondered why he punished the infant children of Egypt for Pharaoh's refusal to free slaves, instead of punishing Pharaoh himself. For that matter why did he punish Pharaoh for enslaving his people if he himself endorsed slavery (not to mention the rape of female prisoners after a genocide he endorsed Numbers 31:15-18). So, do you know what I did - for years? I CLOSED MY MIND TO THE QUESTIONS. So tell me, if you are so open minded, how many years have you spent exploring my point of view? I've read your passage countless times, and I know how you feel when you read it. It is so uplifting - until you really start to wonder.... Did god make the rules? Why did he require the torture of his son? If he didn't make that rule, whose rules does he follow?
You aren't threatening me with torture in hell - you're promising me that I will be tortured in hell. And you are proclaiming that your book is truth .....because it *says* it's true? I don't claim to be right because I say I'm right. I say I'm definitely more right today than I was yesterday - and I plan on being more right tomorrow. I'm *adaptable*
As much as you follow your comments with the love of your god, it's hard for me to take that at face value, since he's *promising* to kill me.
If your faith can't stand up to scrutiny, you shouldn't have it, so if you come out of this more faithful, good for you. However, if you refuse to seriously consider these questions, you have no conviction at all. If Jesus didn't want you to ask questions, he wouldn't have let you evolve such a magnificent brain.
P.S. - Wind has been scientifically proven to exist. See the weather channel.
Christian: The bible is scientifically proving itself to be true every day. read Revelation. this world as we know it is coming to an end I'm just doing my best to reach as many of these "intelligent" people as i can before it is to late. you can take shots at me all you want I'm doing what our lord wants me to do. Atheist God isn't promising to kill anyone. hes giving everyone a chance to choose they're own future. God could have just made us like robots where we did everything he told us to with no choices but he didn't he wanted us to have these choices. and as for the decision that Adam made, i would have done the same thing so would you. face it we are human we are not perfect. and if you spent 19 years in church you would know exactly why his son had to suffer and die for us there had to be an ultimate sacrifice for our sins. Oh and this is what Jesus would do. try to reach the people bound spend eternity in hell. its not to late to change your mind and it really is as easy as A.B.C.
Atheist:
i will currently ignore the topic of the bible constantly proving itself to be scientifically accurate. i've read every single thing you've got to sling on that one, and i will answer them if you like - in a civilized fashion.
christian, at this point i really just would love to get a straight answer from a christian on this question. it has never been answered by ANY religious person i have asked. you seem to be pretty into your religion and defending it, so maybe you'll step up to the plate.
Premise one: God created the laws of physics, the universe, etc. Pretty much there is no principle or thing or thought that predates God.
Agree?
Okay. If you don't, then you can explain that one to me. On to the question.
When making mankind, he made them so that there was one thing to tempt them, and he made them very curious - a quality that would make it extremely difficult not to give it a try. Now when god set this up, he had the right to decide what the punishment is, right? No one else told God what the rules would be - nothing predates him. So, he made the rules so that the one thing that Adam did, which was a result of his nature, resulted in an abundance of terrible things - agonizing child labor/mortality, death, sickness, pain, evil, etc - and could only be cured by the torture of god's son. You tell me that if I read the Bible and spent years studying Christianity, that I would know exactly why this had to happen. I've read it and re-read it, and asked anyone I could - all I ever got was, "It's a mystery." or "His ways are higher than ours."
That means you would rather not think about it.
So tell me: Why did God make the rules such that we were not mindless automatons, but if one guy is not an automaton about one command, God will torture his son to death and allow the world to descend into chaos?
Well if a guy who's all powerful can't figure out how to make fruit without its consumption resulting in a chaotic spiral of death and torture, forgive me for being doubtful.
Really, if you could shed some light, I'd be a lot less confused about why I spent so many years of my life cramming my beliefs down people's throats.
christian, at this point i really just would love to get a straight answer from a christian on this question. it has never been answered by ANY religious person i have asked. you seem to be pretty into your religion and defending it, so maybe you'll step up to the plate.
Premise one: God created the laws of physics, the universe, etc. Pretty much there is no principle or thing or thought that predates God.
Agree?
Okay. If you don't, then you can explain that one to me. On to the question.
When making mankind, he made them so that there was one thing to tempt them, and he made them very curious - a quality that would make it extremely difficult not to give it a try. Now when god set this up, he had the right to decide what the punishment is, right? No one else told God what the rules would be - nothing predates him. So, he made the rules so that the one thing that Adam did, which was a result of his nature, resulted in an abundance of terrible things - agonizing child labor/mortality, death, sickness, pain, evil, etc - and could only be cured by the torture of god's son. You tell me that if I read the Bible and spent years studying Christianity, that I would know exactly why this had to happen. I've read it and re-read it, and asked anyone I could - all I ever got was, "It's a mystery." or "His ways are higher than ours."
That means you would rather not think about it.
So tell me: Why did God make the rules such that we were not mindless automatons, but if one guy is not an automaton about one command, God will torture his son to death and allow the world to descend into chaos?
Well if a guy who's all powerful can't figure out how to make fruit without its consumption resulting in a chaotic spiral of death and torture, forgive me for being doubtful.
Really, if you could shed some light, I'd be a lot less confused about why I spent so many years of my life cramming my beliefs down people's throats.
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That's it for now. Please, continue the convo. I'll add more if it gets interesting.
UPDATE!!!
response:
Christian: And too answer your question Atheist God did not make Adam and Eve curious. The Devil made them curious he tempted them to take the fruit. And the reason that God decided to punish Adam and Eve and the desendants was that the Earth was corrupt by the devil. They were no longer pure for they had sinned. Jesus had to die to make up for this sin and all the sin that will ever be commited. Otherwise each of us would have to suffer and die a horrible death, (which we deserve). God did this just as you punish a child. You discipline your child even though you love them. If your child killed someone they would be put to death by the government. Punishment.... but God loves us and does not want us to die so he sent his true son to die in our place. And when God created the devil he was good. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways, but iniquity was found in him. It was not put there by God. Lucifer created it. found in Ezekial 28:15. And if God made us mindless followers of him when we worshipped or praised him what would that mean.... He gives us a choice. People can choose thier own fate and choose to follow him. I hope this answers your ? if you need more detail please tell me.
I will leave off pasting the conversation here, although it still goes on. I will admit, we both get less patient as time goes on. It never becomes a full on mud sling, but we do get a bit snippy. It's become exhausting. If you'd like to weigh in, please comment here or get on the FFRF page on facebook! Also here is a link to the remainder of the conversation on FB:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freedom-From-Religion-Foundation/99536044727?v=wall&story_fbid=385996234727
Keep on thinkin', kids.
Hello Abby? I apologize ahead of time for my ignorance when it comes to blogs and such. Hopefully this is posting under your Apr.25 blog.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to introduce myself first- my name is Stevie and I am a ‘Christ follower’. I read your conversation (I’m guilty of only skimming through the Christian’s ‘rebuttals’ after the oh I suppose the 2nd one) and I wanted to apologize on behalf of all Christians. Even if I don't have the authority to do so, I suppose it's the thought that counts... I get upset when a person, religious or non-religious, has a petty argument and expects for it to do some damage. Whether the damage is to be perceived as good or bad, that's up to the receiving end. America has become a culture obsessed with being right. We rarely have a decent conversation anymore. It’s a ‘I’m right, you’re wrong, here’s my opinion as fact, even though I’ve followed the majority and haven’t done any research of my own to back up my claim, VICTORY IS MINE, goodbye’ mindset. Many of us don’t bother to open our mind, ask questions, and most importantly, LISTEN. We need to look at things from different points of view, ESPECIALLY the opposing argument’s; and always entertain the thought, “I could be wrong…”. You seem like my kind of girl! You question those who claim to follow Christ (or other religions). They need to think, they need to learn about their faith personally not just by hearsay. My response, my opinion, that I’ve concluded from reading the context clues and follow ups in different books of the Bible, about WHY God did what He did, does what He does, etc… is love. I know that might be a little far-fetched or too easy; but I’ve realize that it tends to be the simple things we neglect to recognize as the solution or answer because everyone around us encourages things to be difficult and complex. We just have to have a scientific answer with a foot high stack of paper backing every question or idea. With God, as “inconceivable, unthinkable, unimaginable, incredible…” He is, I think Western culture misses the simple fact that, yes he’s all these things and more, but He’s also straightforward, blunt, honest, and He is Love. The Bible says we’re created in God’s image. If that’s true, then He has emotions just as we do. One of the main emotions every human suffers and prospers from is love. We all want to be GENUINELY loved. Would you want to put a spell on someone, making them fall in love with you, knowing it’s a façade the entire time, or would you want them to truthfully love you for you, willingly, even when that love is thoroughly tested throughout time? God can create robots who profess their undying love to Him day in and day out, or He can create us imperfect stubborn tainted humans who refuse our Maker until we uncover the secrets and conquer all the questions in the world which are important to us… We were created with freewill. God knew what He was doing. He had/has a plan which is His followers to be a “Light” to the rest of the world in order to “save” the non-followers. BUT the other issue is delivery of His Word. It’s important to view the Bible as a nonsugar-coated (I know that’s not a word) history book. Too many view Christianity and it’s history as, it either has to be perfect, or it has to be all about war and tragedy making it unbelievable either way. Why not take it for what it is? Which is the history of our beginnings, a record of our mistakes, hardships, victories, happiness, everything. It’s real. It’s the only religion, that I’ve found, so far that has thorough evidence to back it up, is older than the 19th century, was not founded by a man claiming to have all the answers or a prophet of some sort, gives an actual answer to the creation of everything, an actual answer to where you go when you die, actual answers to life’s questions along with
tidbits of guidance and examples (since most of us need exactly that), laws or a basic code of conduct (set of morals) to live by which come from the ‘founder’ who, may I remind you, is not merely human, a legitimate history line along with genealogy, geography, etc. for research purposes, oh and it is successful IF followed correctly (not a human’s perception of how it is to be followed or their dictation of the material given to each individual by this ‘founder’ to have the answers we so crave to the questions we constantly ponder).
ReplyDeleteAnd that also depends on your beliefs. Do you read the bible for the specific purpose of proving it wrong? I mean, do you read the bible for the specific purpose of proving your own point and own agenda? If it is, then that’s exactly what type of answers that will be jumping out at you. That girl obviously doesn’t understand that if you’re talking to a nonbeliever you can’t offer up “proof” from a book a nonbeliever doesn’t believe to be credible. I will tell you this, something that I’ve learned: how God reveals Himself is through His own agenda and reflects the individual being “enlightened”. We’re all different, and He obviously recognizes that. “I guess when you believe, and when you’re looking, you see Him everywhere- even in the oddest, smallest, most insignificant places. But when we don’t look, when we’re not open, we don’t see Him. That doesn’t mean He’s not there. Pretty weird, but I love it. God isn’t a set of beliefs, He isn’t some kind of oath we take. He’s the one who created this place we dwell in, and He’s willing to interact with us if we’re open to Him.” I can’t really say it any better than that. I have a tendency to talk too much and confuse people. I’ll tell you what though- if you just take a minute, walk outside, stop and look around you, even in the midst of chaos, in tragedy and despair, you see something amazing… I do. And it’s when you see things the way they are; you can’t pretend you’re blind.
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ReplyDeleteI forgot one more thing- you've asked her a handful of times why God would allow His Son to be tortured and killed- Jesus, His Son, is God. The Trinity is what makes the death of Jesus Christ legit. People are always asking for proof that God exists- Jesus was God in human form. He was proof, came down here to dwell with us stinky humans lol, practiced miracles (proof), practiced what He preached (patience and love, justice and a thirst for what is right, proof), then He allowed us to think whatever we wanted to. Even with God walking the earth we still denied Him- up until He was put on the cross. Then they were like 'Oh crap, what did we do? That's God!!'
ReplyDeleteNobody has yet to disprove that a man named Jesus Christ, was the greatest rabbi of all time, and walked the earth some 2000+ years ago. Great philosophers have become known throughout the years, men who founded their own religions have come and gone, they're all bested by someone else, proven wrong or tweaked to better fit what modern society wants to hear. You can't tweak Jesus Christ or His teachings because they're the real deal, and He is God who is the real deal.
Unfortunately the 'Light' that is supposed to be God's proof is now taking on human perspectives. I mean show me a so-called 'Christian' truly representing (at least thoroughly trying) Jesus; and I'll show you the validity of God. It's depressing to think of what Christians have made of Christianity. I'm looking at myself first when I say that too. I've been working on a few things. I feel like your stalker with my 3 comments- I assure you, I'm not. Just deprived of half decent discussion.
So how did you become a nonbeliever? If you don't mind my asking.
Thanks for commenting!
ReplyDeleteTo answer one question, though, I would like to make it very clear that I did NOT read the Bible in order to debunk it. In fact, I read it because I was raised very religious and I wanted to have a deep and thorough understanding of what it was that I was preaching. I knew plenty of people who "read" the Bible, but they typically read certain passages and excerpts and books - I took it upon myself to read the whole thing. Upon my first completion, I was so high on having accomplished the feat (I was probably about 16). There were a lot of things I found extremely contradictory and/or hateful in the Bible, but I ignored them, assuming I just didn't understand God's intent. I did all kinds of research on how the Bible has been proven accurate through scientific and historical study - and I found LOTS of answers. Though, when you are researching this topic, you are bound to find studies to the contrary along the way. I just dismissed them as pessimists. I continued on this path, rereading the Bible, but gradually allowing myself the option of being more honest about my feelings and reactions to the text. The story of the slaughtering of the firstborn of Egypt during the ten plagues was never excusable to me, no matter how many ways I tried to justify it. This disturbed me, because if I couldn't justify this, how could I believe the whole Bible? Then I kept finding more and more acts of genocide, rape, dismemberment, sexism, torture, and other horrific acts - all either endorsed, commissioned, or carried out by God. I started asking religious leaders to explain it to me - how is it justified to murder a child? How is it justified to make a girl marry the man who raped her? How is it justified to punish all mankind (and the son of God as well) simply because a guy and girl ate a piece of fruit? There were many answers that simply sounded like the inane chatter spouted by the Christian cited in my post, but eventually, they all led to the same answer: just have faith. Translation: just stop asking these questions that make my head hurt. It tore me apart to admit to myself that I had dedicated my life to a Book that may preach quite a few nice things, but has an overwhelming tendency to endorse violence and bigotry. I realized that if I had spent all my time studying Doctor Seuss, I would have gotten all the good stuff without all this baggage. I finally approached my family about this, and eventually my mother vaguely threatened to kill herself if I was right.
In a nut shell, my parents told me to study God's word - now they probably wish that they hadn't. In fact, they won't even speak to me anymore, even though I refuse to ever bring up my beliefs.
I implore, beg, plead that every Christian READ the ENTIRE Bible, just like I did, and NOT ignore or shrug off the parts that make them uncomfortable. Nothing is ever accomplished until we are able to look head on at the things in our history that are disturbing and WRONG. Only then can we learn what is right.
In short - I read the Bible, and it led me to a path that ended right here... and onward.
ReplyDeleteP.S. - As for your request that I step outside and take a look around and become awe-inspired.... that's one of my favorite things in the world to do. (See my most recent post) I'd highly recommend that you look up a book called "Unweaving the Rainbow" by Richard Dawkins. Yes, I know that Richard Dawkins is a great boogy-man to the staunchly religious people of the world, but this is not a book set out to debunk God. This book is an excellent example of how Professor Dawkins is the one man in this world who I think is more in awe of nature than anyone I've seen. I've just started reading it, and it is amazing.
I know books are a big time commitment, so check this out for 4 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioZf4TjoUI
It's a song/video made from a mashup of scientists lecturing and explaining some thrilling and beautiful things about the earth, as well as some amazing visuals. When people tell me that atheists are cold and cynical, this is usually the first rebuttals that pops into my mind.
Books are a lifetime commitment for me- they're awesome and my favorite 'past-time'. I just bought several today actually. I'll go check out the Richard Dawkins' one. I prefer to read, research, and analyze things that are meant to contradict each other. It gives me something to think about and just expand on. My best friend from middle school and so on just recently decided to completely cut me out of her life because I had questions about her beliefs, or non for that matter. I was just curious. She considers herself an agnostic. She is what I call one of the arrogant, closed-minded ones that taint the rest of the atheist/agnostic group. I can't stand people like that. Just to understand why she was being the way she was, changing the way she was, I started reading different works by her favorite "philosopher"- Friedrich Nietzsche. If you like him, to each his own, but I highly dislike him. I feel as if people purposely misjudged the losing of his mind for him being a genius. Maybe he suffered from syphilis, I don't know. But any system where a person deems themselves better than the other (higher on a food chain or special pyramid) is simply unacceptable to me.
ReplyDeleteI've had the same questions as you. My husband's dad is a pastor- I usually put my questions to him. Or I work at a Christian university- I email the pastors and bug them all the time. My pastor from back home, if I asked him a question to which he didn't know the answer (this was my favorite) he would be honest, say he didn't know and promise to research it for me. Those who use the 'you just have to have faith' line are being lazy. One of the questions I had was a genocide one. The answer was that God told His people to murder all of another group of people period. I still didn't understand why. I was reading a completely different book and there it was! They did it, He commanded it done again, they didn't listen as well this time... years later, books later, a descendant (a child in the past) of the tribe they were SUPPOSED to wipe out came around and slaughtered them. God specifically told them to do take them out in order to prevent the murder of His people. I do confess I haven't read the ENTIRE Bible from start to finish- I'm in the process though.
I definitely don't characterize 'you' all as the same thing; you're all individuals in my eyes. One of my closest friends who I love to verbally spar with is an atheist who is gay and engaged. I love him and we ponder the world together.
In answer to the genocide response - there is no excuse for genocide. Do you honestly believe that simply because a child is of a certain race (or "tribe") that they have an unstoppable urge to kill members of another tribe? Under the assumption that your story about the genocide survivor is true, what do you think is more likely - that the child grew up to hate the Israelites because he was from an evil tribe, or did he have a murderous intent toward them because as a child he saw them murder his family and everyone he ever knew? It is a very backwards sense of reasoning to think that God was protecting anyone by murdering an entire tribe of people, including their innocent children. To assume that the child was murderous because they belonged to a certain tribe is nothing short of racist. It would be like saying that all Chinese people are rapists by nature. There would be no justification of this child killing Israelites, but if you were on the jury of a murder case where a child grew up and sought out the people who killed his family, you might not immediately want to sentence him to death. This is person suffering the ultimate case of post traumatic stress disorder and should be rehabilitated with compassion, if from a prison cell or mental hospital. This is racism begetting racism. By choosing one side, you are simply justifying one type of racism. We don't think the Holocaust was wrong because we believe Jews are superior to Germans - we think it is wrong because no race is superior to another.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the issue lies in who you’re continually seeking answers from. Man does not have all the answers. If you truly want answers ask the One who has them all. You claim to have been a Christian for 19 years. Now I ask you, what was your faith before becoming an atheist?
ReplyDeleteIf people were created with freewill, if God exists, and if the devil exists, the answers easily float to the surface. My response to this is ridiculously long though. I think I might make a blog thingamabobbit. If I did, and sent you the link, would you read it? I find your's to provoke my own thoughts. I need that, keeps me on my toes. Too many people that I'm surrounded by are shallow. I love them but they don't even attempt to think a majority of the time.
I would certainly be willing to read your blog. I'm pleased to have inspired you to start. Being able to carefully articulate the things you know and/or believe is an excellent way to constantly test how strongly you understand and/or believe it. It works for me.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I still fail to see how I'm seeking answers from anything other than the Bible in this discussion, based on my response. I'm simply stating that the reasoning behind committing a genocide is still unfounded, morally.
I know this sounds harsh, but if you ask who I would seek answers from, I would seek answers first from someone who doesn't sanction rape and genocide. It's not just one instance in the Bible. It's all over it. The god of the Bible has continuously proven himself to be a very shaky (at best) source of morals and information. I sought out answers from the Bible my whole life. While I was still faithful and was feeling uncomfortable with the violence in the Bible, I prayed fervently that I could come to an understanding of the brutality in the scriptures. I've come to the realization that the answers are simply not there. The book was written by people who justified their appalling actions by putting a divine will behind them. This is a dangerous pattern among some of the more extreme religious people of the world to this day.
To answer your question directly, my parents are Jehovah's Witnesses, I was raised in their organization, I began to simply consider myself a generic Christian (I guess the term is "non-denominational"), eventually became a generic sort of non-religious god-believer, then agnostic, then a Bertrand Russel style "teapot" atheist.
In case you haven't heard of the tea pot thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot
(It's a little obscure and I didn't want t sound like I'm just spouting out philosophical concepts like everyone should know them)
I greatly applaud your desire to think deeply. We need more people in the ranks of the deep thinkers, don't we?
We most certainly do need more people in the ranks of the deep thinkers. My best friend is a Jehovah's Witness! I forgot where my blog thing went. I'm going to go find it and send you the link.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't talking about a person, nor the Bible- when I said maybe you're asking the wrong people. People in general, a book in general, neither have all the answers. I was talking about literally asking God. IF indeed He exists then if you seek the answers directly from Him, maybe they'll pop up. IF indeed He doesn't exist then obviously you won't know why He did what He did or why Christianity is what it is period. How many different versions/translations of the Bible have you read by the way? I have the NWT because her family gave it to me.
Found it!
ReplyDeletehttp://rememberyourposture.blogspot.com/